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The Art of Debate: Logical Fallacies - ad hominem

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In the book "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, Steven Covey makes the assertion that if you want to learn something, teach it. Well, I don't know as much as I like about logical fallacies, so I have decided to write articles defining and describing the logical fallacies I see around the Vine, and are accused of using in my own comments.

The first step in learning is recognizing you don't know something. In a past thread, Jack Huang accused me of creating a "strawman." I thought, "What the Hell does that mean?" Oh, it may seem stupid to some, but it isn't stupidity. It's ignorance. Ignorance is nothing to be ashamed of, in my opinion. Will Rogers said, "Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." I went to college and earned a degree in horticulture. I can tell you all sorts of things about soil profiles, micro-nutrients, entomology and shade tolerant flowering shrubs in Zone 5 climates. But, unfortunately for me, this degree did not require too many classes in logic or critical thinking.

When Jack Huang hit me with the strawman accusation, I recognized that I was lacking this knowledge and desired it. But first, it made me angry and I didn't handle it well. I think, I'm not sure, but I think Jack pulled the trigger on the "Ignore This Author" button. I don't blame him if he did. I went straight for the ol' ad hominem. If you read this, sorry Jack.

I have since collected and read many articles on logical fallacies and think I am ready to start these articles. I will try to use actual debates from threads around the Vine. This may upset people, but if so, those people need to grow up. I was used to set an example to the class through the bulk of my academic career. I turned out mostly adjusted. You can suffer through it also. Feel free to discuss your thoughts about your comment or debate why it isn't a fallacy.

I said I am doing this to learn. Point out my mistakes. I know with all the love here, you would never hesitate to point out a fault in another. We can use this to sharpen each others iron. I have a strong self-image and don't mind admitting mistakes or having them pointed out. Actually, I would prefer to have them highlighted than to continue making them.

So, let's define what a fallacy is and look at the argumentum ad hominem. After all, I used it and it may be the most often used fallacy on all of the Internets (sorry Dubya. But that's funny.)

=========================================================================

Logical fallacies are weaknesses in an argument or a failure in reasoning. They may sound reasonable or true, but in fact, they are rickety statements that may be downright dishonest. Wikipedia says:

A logical fallacy is an error in logical argument which is independent of the truth of the premises. It is a flaw in the structure of an argument as opposed to an error in its premises. When there is a fallacy in an argument it is said to be invalid.

It is useful to categorize fallacies, to better understand where the failure of logic occurs. There are fallacies of relevance, fallacies of ambiguity, omission and component.

The fallacy Argumentum ad hominem, literally translated mean "attack to the man." It is a fallacy of relevance. This type of argument is flawed because it fails to address the premise but rather goes after the person stating the premise. It looks something like this:

Speaker #1: I think that minimum wages should be mandated by the Federal government to ensure everyone can make a living wage.

Speaker #2: You're a liberal idiot.

Speaker #1: You can't talk to me...blah, blah, blah...Code of Honor....blah, blah, blah...

Speaker #2: Idiot.

The fact that Speaker #2 may or may not be a liberal idiot has nothing to do with his premise on minimum wage. Speaker #2 needs to attack the premise, not the man. A better rebuttal might be:

Speaker #1: I think that minimum wages should be mandated by the Federal government to ensure everyone can make a living wage.

Speaker #2: The federal government has it's power given to it by the Constitution and mandating payment rates between employer and employee is not one of those powers.

Here, the second speaker has attacked the premise that the Federal government can dictate wages. His statement attacks the premise of the argument, rather than the speaker.

Let's look at one from a recent thread. This thread was a very heated thread that was loaded with fallacies but this one illustrates ad hominem in a subtle way:

searayman

If they really didn't agree with the war they could get out, there is always a way out. You could do something to get kicked out.

Dennis P. McCann

Let me guess. Not a veteran. College student? Maybe still in High School?

Now, understand, Dennis doesn't seem angry in what he wrote. When I think "attacks the person," I usually think there is some strong emotion involved. That is not necessarily true. Dennis's response attacks the person, searayman, and not the premise, that if a military person wanted out of war, he could do something stupid and get kicked out. A better response was given by finalcut later in the thread

finalcut

A true soldier, who was opposed to the war, would file as a conscientious objector and continue to serve their country in a non-combative role; they wouldn't just quit.

Argumentum ad hominem fails to refute the premise because the person stating the premise isn't important. The evidence for and against the premise is what matters. If your premise is ignored but you are attacked, simply point out that they refuter has not addressed the premise but attacked you. This will, hopefully, deflate the attack on you and redirect his attention to the premise.

  • 32 Votes
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4.2
{"commentId":497798,"authorDomain":"PurelyPolitical"}

I put this in politics because I think there is more debate here than any of the other categories I was offered. I hope you enjoy it and can stay awake through the entire text. :P

{"commentId":497798,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"PurelyPolitical"}
  • 9 votes
Reply#1 - Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:56 PM EST
{"commentId":501425,"authorDomain":"americanpolitics"}
searaymanDeleted
Reply
{"commentId":497809,"authorDomain":"PurelyPolitical"}

Also, do you think this would be a good place to post examples of argumentum ad hominem fallacies? Should we use the comment section as a teaching tool in this way, by displaying different ways this fallacy presents itself?

I think this might be a good idea, one that can be utilized for a long time. But I've been wrong before.

{"commentId":497809,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"PurelyPolitical"}
  • 7 votes
Reply#2 - Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:01 PM EST
{"commentId":498446,"authorDomain":"EarthAsylum"}

Thanks for the education. I see the phrase quite often but wasn't sure what it meant. I'd like to see more examples. Sometimes it's hard to tell where the line is throughout a discourse of heated debate. I'd also like to see discussions on other logical fallacies.

{"commentId":498446,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"EarthAsylum"}
  • 5 votes
Reply#3 - Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:23 PM EST
{"commentId":498477,"authorDomain":"PurelyPolitical"}

I have planned to write as many of these style of articles as I can, covering as many fallacies as I can. I think next I am going with "Strawman." That gets lobbed around here in almost every thread.

{"commentId":498477,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"PurelyPolitical"}
  • 8 votes
#3.1 - Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:37 PM EST
{"commentId":498604,"authorDomain":"jimdent"}
I think next I am going with "Strawman." That gets lobbed around here in almost every thread.

I would say thats a true statement, mostly because of all the strawmen arguments thrown about here..... :-D

I don't mean to speak for Dennis, but I think his comment was a little more than "just" an ad hominem reply. His saying "let me guess, not a veteran" was a direct rebuttal to searayman's assertion that you could "just do something to get kicked out." It's not that simple and a veteran would have known that. So, even though it was ad hominem, it still had a meaning that addressed the comment.

Btw, good article, I enjoyed it.

{"commentId":498604,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"jimdent"}
  • 7 votes
#3.2 - Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:47 PM EST
Reply
{"commentId":498693,"authorDomain":"bradfarris"}

Good work, Bodhi1, and I'm looking forward to reading more like it. I tend to agree with Jim Dent about the nature of Dennis' comment (heh - and about the number of strawman arguments we see here). Believe me, there are much more clear and explicit examples of ad hominem arguments to be found than the one you've chosen. I'd also question whether or not its a good idea to use those examples at all - it may not be any problem at all, but some people may consider it to be like salting a wound, especially if the assessment is possibly a bit shaky. Don't take those things personally, though - the articles are bound to be interesting, and will definitely be useful. Another means by which we may get smarter here.

{"commentId":498693,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"bradfarris"}
  • 4 votes
Reply#4 - Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:18 PM EST
{"commentId":498696,"authorDomain":"bradfarris"}

You'd think that the Newsvine spellchecker would include "hominem" and "strawman," wouldn't you?

{"commentId":498696,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"bradfarris"}
  • 3 votes
#4.1 - Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:19 PM EST
{"commentId":498728,"authorDomain":"jimdent"}

Get Firefox 2.0 and add the words to the built in spellchecker dictionary. I haven't hit the "check spelling" button in ages.... :-D

{"commentId":498728,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"jimdent"}
  • 7 votes
#4.2 - Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:33 PM EST
{"commentId":499189,"authorDomain":"PurelyPolitical"}
I tend to agree with Jim Dent about the nature of Dennis' comment (heh - and about the number of strawman arguments we see here). Believe me, there are much more clear and explicit examples of ad hominem arguments to be found than the one you've chosen.

That's true Brad. There are more clear examples out there, Like this one, in a discussion on whether it is better to let a robber have your loot or to fight to keep it:

gwenny

you have to live with the shame. I'm still angry with myself after 27 years about how I failed to take action when I was robbed at gunpoint. I opted to do nothing, thinking my husband would do something. He CRIED, the freaking coward, and handed over the deposit for our new house.

Lucid

Then maybe you should get some help. It's too bad he didn't handle it well, but that doesn't make picking up a gun and using it the right thing to do in any given situation. If you can't get over it after 27 years, then you some serious issues. I feel bad for your husband, not because he so totally blew it, but because you still care enough about it to mention it now.

Here, the first thing Lucid goes after is Gwenny's mental well being, not whether shame is a factor in the argument. This is another good example of ad hominem. The only time he retutes gweeny's premise is to say "that doesn't make picking up a gun and using it theright thing to do in any given situation." But that's not an argument in my book. It's a dismissal. Lucid goes right back to ad hominem after that sentence.

That example is very clear. The reason I went with Dennis' is because the fallacy is so subtle. It makes a point, yes, that searayman must be speaking from ignorance, but it is still an argument towards searayman, not his premise.

I hope, while you all are reading threads out there that you will take the time to cut and print ad hominem attacks and add them here. Not to embarrass the writer, but to educate the reader.

Thanks.

{"commentId":499189,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"PurelyPolitical"}
  • 7 votes
#4.3 - Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:50 AM EST
Reply
{"commentId":498730,"authorDomain":"ajsnyd"}

Great article Bohdi, I look forward to more in this series, I'm sure you can educate me on many of the issues.

{"commentId":498730,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"ajsnyd"}
  • 3 votes
Reply#5 - Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:33 PM EST
{"commentId":498922,"authorDomain":"yseult"}

Great article and well written.

"Oh, it may seem stupid to some, but it isn't stupidity. It's ignorance. Ignorance is nothing to be ashamed of, in my opinion."

Spoken like a true philosopher!
I just have a little thing to add, but I am sure you will cover this in a later article in depth:
the argumentum ad hominem is often linked to an underlying reversed argumentum ad verecundiam (an argument or appeal to authority) which is always the most feeble argument if no other argument is offered. In the case of the ad hominem it serves to aim at the non-authoritative status of the person or discussion partner. In the end it only serves to point out the attackers authority over he one of the attacked and in eristic dialectics (sorry, cannot offer you the wikipedia link, since I'm new... just google for eristic) is to be considered one of the main rules to win an argument. Looking forward to your continuation!

{"commentId":498922,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"yseult"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#6 - Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:06 AM EST
{"commentId":499371,"authorDomain":"DogWings"}

Great article buddy. I am glad to now know what ad hominem means. It's one of those things people do that causes me to completely discount anything else they say and call them an idiot. That's not to say I'm not just as big an idiot, but as we all know I exempt myself from the expectations I place on others.

For clarification in future conversations, when I call someone a douche bag (for example) it's not an ad hominem thing, it's an I don't like you thing.

When I say you're a conservative drone nut-job it's not ad hominem either. It's me trying to get a reaction out of you. But now that I've said that I'll have to think of a new way to get the reaction.

Looking forward to the next article.

{"commentId":499371,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"DogWings"}
  • 3 votes
Reply#7 - Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:39 PM EST
{"commentId":499379,"authorDomain":"PurelyPolitical"}

Idiot.

{"commentId":499379,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"PurelyPolitical"}
  • 4 votes
#7.1 - Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:50 PM EST
{"commentId":499384,"authorDomain":"PurelyPolitical"}

The above comment is another excellent example of an ad hominem fallacy. It is also a joke between friends. So don't report it as harrassment or that I am out of line. I am still trying to get that lifetime achievement stem.

Carry on. Nothing to see here.

{"commentId":499384,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"PurelyPolitical"}
  • 6 votes
#7.2 - Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:53 PM EST
Reply
{"commentId":499451,"authorDomain":"arghawon"}

Bodhi1 - great subject!

I remember my philosophy course in college - Logic - and we discussed the various logical fallacies in arguments (I believe there were 7? or was it 9? - boy I wish I took better notes). Anyways, I remember most of them, but I would love it if you would help me recall them all.

There are:

Ad Hominem
Strawman
Red Herring

darn, I can't remember the rest...

Any help? :)

{"commentId":499451,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"arghawon"}
  • 1 vote
Reply#8 - Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:43 PM EST
{"commentId":499526,"authorDomain":"spiffie"}

There is an impressive list of fallacies over at Wikipedia. (It's many more than nine.)

{"commentId":499526,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"spiffie"}
  • 1 vote
#8.1 - Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:30 PM EST
{"commentId":499587,"authorDomain":"arghawon"}

Thank you very much!!

Thinking back, I believe my instructor covered the 9 favorite :).

Appreciate it!

{"commentId":499587,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"arghawon"}
  • 1 vote
#8.2 - Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:13 PM EST
Reply
{"commentId":500937,"authorDomain":"koozebane"}

Keep up the good work, Bodhi1.

We need more posters who know the rules of engagement.

This is definitely a series that will help the community "Get Smarter Here."

{"commentId":500937,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"koozebane"}
  • 4 votes
Reply#9 - Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:03 PM EST
{"commentId":500957,"authorDomain":"PurelyPolitical"}

Thanks Koozebane.

{"commentId":500957,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"PurelyPolitical"}
  • 1 vote
#9.1 - Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:13 PM EST
Reply
{"commentId":502038,"authorDomain":"gwenny"}

Nice article, dude. Now I have a question. I'm serious, I don't remember who said, "You can bring a horticulture, but you can't make her think."

{"commentId":502038,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"gwenny"}
  • 4 votes
Reply#10 - Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:37 AM EST
{"commentId":502182,"authorDomain":"ryanbooker"}

That was on Letterman last night or the night before. Not sure where it originally comes from, though.

{"commentId":502182,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"ryanbooker"}
  • 2 votes
#10.1 - Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:07 AM EST
{"commentId":502375,"authorDomain":"PurelyPolitical"}

I don't know who said it, but it made me laugh. Thanks.

{"commentId":502375,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"PurelyPolitical"}
  • 3 votes
#10.2 - Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:11 AM EST
Reply
{"commentId":502884,"authorDomain":"paddy"}

Bodhi, I haven't finished reading your article yet, but am enjoying it (you got my vote). Just wanted to point out that I'm sure you'll enjoy reading Celestina's Logic 101, written almost a year ago here on the Vine.

Cheers.

{"commentId":502884,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"paddy"}
  • 3 votes
Reply#11 - Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:57 PM EST
{"commentId":511036,"authorDomain":"jay-baker"}
Because many of these scientists who are sounding the global warming scare depend on grant money for their livelihood, and they know the grant money dries up when they stop preaching the global warming sermon.

Here's an ad hominem from this article: 25 Reasons Why You Should be Skeptical About Global Warming.

Where the scientists get their funding has nothing to do with whether or not global warming is actually occurring and our part in causing it.

Great article.

{"commentId":511036,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"jay-baker"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#12 - Sun Feb 4, 2007 12:50 AM EST
{"commentId":511054,"authorDomain":"PurelyPolitical"}

That reminds me, there is a great example of ad hominem there. Neal Bootz wrote a piece on his website citing 25 reason to doubt global warming. Pamela Drew posted the following:

Always good to have a bit of background on the source. Neil Boortz...

On the March 31 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio program, Neal Boortz said that Rep. Cynthia McKinney (D-GA) "looks like a ghetto slut." On the July 19 edition of his nationally syndicated radio show, host Neal Boortz claimed that "at its core," Islam is a "violent, violent religion," and called "this Muhammad guy just a phony rag-picker." Boortz asserted that "It is perfectly legitimate, perhaps even praiseworthy, to recognize Islam as a religion of vicious, violent, bloodthirsty cretins."

Earlier in the program, Boortz labeled anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan a "lunatic", a "moonbat", and a "crazy broad."

On the August 3 edition of his radio show, Boortz asked his audience, "How incompetent, how ignorant, how worthless is an adult that can't earn more than the minimum wage?" Boortz continued: "You have to really, really, really be a pretty pathetic human being to not be able to earn more than ... the minimum wage."

Media Matters has an archive of his false statements and outrageous smears. The guy is an formula entertainer, not a thinker.

Pamela attacks the author here, not the premise. She never addresses the premise. Classic ad hominem which was called out by Adam Hobson.

{"commentId":511054,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"PurelyPolitical"}
  • 1 vote
#12.1 - Sun Feb 4, 2007 1:10 AM EST
{"commentId":522569,"authorDomain":"uspolitics"}

Nice article ... suggest you create a new "intro graph" for all three - with cross-links - so that they are more easily accessed as a series. :)

Now, a quibble about this comment.

One *has* to make judgments about the credibility of a source. All sources are not equally credible and a well-argued criticism is not necessarily an ad hominem, IMO.

I believe in this case Pamela chose her rebuttal source poorly, if the premise was to cast doubt on Boortz's qualifications to analyze global warming. On the other hand, if the purpose was to demonstrate that his, erh, argumentation style is emotional, not logical ... then the rebuttal source _clearly— achieves that goal, IMO. She failed to tell us her premise for providing the info on Boortz, so we don't know.

< pause >

His bio shows that he is a talk radio host. That explains the emotional argument style, IMO. But he is a lawyer ... and he has been a speech writer for a Governor of Georgia (he doesn't say which one, who came after Carter - Busbee? - I should know this) ... so that speaks to his having analytical skills. However, he's not a scientist -- so if you place a higher value on scientific opinion on an issue of science ... then this source would not be credible to you.

There, have I muddied the waters enough?

{"commentId":522569,"threadId":"71504","contentId":"539957","authorDomain":"uspolitics"}
  • 1 vote
#12.2 - Fri Feb 9, 2007 11:07 PM EST
Reply
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